homeopathic treatments

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Clarence

Re: homeopathic treatments

Post by Clarence »

scrounger wrote:Actually if laughter is the best medicine then this will save you the trip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k0JeEKR3Do
Good one.

Do not take if you have fallen arches, suffer from soft inch, fungi of the toenails, have heart problems, diabetic, balding, arthritis, only have three eyes, headaches, drippy nose or other appendage,
Have a good one all


Clarence

Re: homeopathic treatments

Post by Clarence »

Wayne wrote:Clarence,

I think that there may be a problem with definition. Homeopathic vs natural medicine vs others like aromatics and the like.....
....That said, if something works for you, go at it. I'm glad you posted this. I'm not yet so wise that I can discount other people's experiences...
I will stick with natural medicine. often used by homeopathics, but labels, medical degrees or cults don’t impress me much ( good old shania Twain) I look at what I see working and there you have it. Some of those videos submitted here for medical contemplation were hilarious

To lower the blood pressure by natural means, I submit the following for consideration. Bear in mind it is not approved by some medical association or any paid for government agency. They are all at a conference in the south paid for by the companies seeking approval of their cure. Jolly good time they have sipping natural fruit cocktails or maybe even smoking some plants. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uLlv_aZjHXc

Clarence out!
thecrownsown
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Re: homeopathic treatments

Post by thecrownsown »

peppercorn wrote:I think evidenced based proof is a great thing, why limit it to just medicine though. Note in the below youtube vid, medicine is being practiced without a licence or evidence yet no one is objecting to it, no calls to restrain it! lets just be even in the application of our objections, thats all I am saying..If the below is aloud, its real hard to object to homeopathy, well not for you or me but.... Do note in the below vid I notice there are no amuputes present to ask for a leg or arm back...strange don't you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1wVQFmkIlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1XPwKKrB78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdUIqKJyD0Q

Excellent point and post. "Evidence based" is the foundation of science. Its how we set aside snake oil and things that don't work and instead focus on what does.

To date, there is no statistical evidence showing faith healing has any physical effect. Of course there are the anecdotal stories, the placebo effect and the emotional high... But like Homeopathy...no substance to it.
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thecrownsown
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Re: homeopathic treatments

Post by thecrownsown »

Wayne wrote:
thecrownsown wrote:This topic has no place in the "health" section...
There are many treatments not understood fully by medical science. Chinese medicine, for example has long promoted herbal medicine, acupuncture, massage and dietary therapy.

Homeopathic medicine has been extensively studied by the Swiss Government. The result was that this government concludes that homeopathic treatment is a valid one and Switzerland’s national health insurance program pays for this treatment.

I haven't practised homeopathic Medicine myself. But if people feel that they have received a health benefit from such treatment, who is to say that they shouldn't feel free to discuss it in the health area of this Website? Really?
Therapies and remedies that work and shown to work through testing, research and statistical proof are evidence based. Evidence based doesnt discriminate between geographic location, historical or cultural bias, etc. It simply is or is not. Whether practised from ancient China for "thousands of years" or discovered last week has aboslutely no bearing on whether something "works" or not.

Homeopathic medicine has not been studied by the Swiss government. Your appealing to authority that somehow because a government has sanctioned it, that makes it evidence based. Ontario regulated Homeopathy a few years back and the College of Homeopathy was created. This was to reign in and regulate the wild west of one branch of pseudo medicine. There is still no evidence it works. But practitioners are not mandated to work within a set of guidelines and register. There is a very important difference between providing evidence of something...and having a legal framework to hold people liable and to a standard of practise.

There is a lot of comments on homeopathy about "believing" and "feeling." If its a religious experience and with an emotional attachment or placebo effect fair enough. I have no qualms with someones beliefs or religious choice. Where I draw the line is someone stating "this homeopathic advice will help your asthma, or cure your xxxx" There is no proof, nor evidence that it does. Thats a lie.

Believe what you want. If your going to state a fact, hold it up with evidence.
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thecrownsown
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Re: homeopathic treatments

Post by thecrownsown »

Clarence wrote:Crownsman, no flame wars needed. I frankly couldn’t give a flying fig if anyone doesn’t believe in it.
I am an evidence based security professional, accustomed to hearing lies and diversions. I don’t believe a minister, deputy minister, the police, the managers, VP,s down to the guard in the lobby. Everyone has an agenda. I don’t and. I offer this for everyone’s consideration.

I was and still am a believer in conventional medicine, however, I was introduced to to homeopathic medicines from inlaws and was sceptical to say the least. I have however seen it work on myself, family and friends. Don’t take my word, but be open and try arnica on a bruise. Surely you have purchased stuff that didn’t work so it’s a small gamble right?

My family was with another and one of their kids slammed their head onto the corner of a table and you could see the egg starting to appear. My wife ( a nurse I would trust with my life) put a little arnica on it. The mother was sceptical and like many thought it was some form of witchcraft. It was hilarious to watch her face as the massive egg never appeared on the child forehead. She immediately asked what it was that was used. Maybe it was witchcraft and we fooled the bruise and the mother!

I used to cut 30 face cord of wood a year, I cut more trees down on my property in a year then are in most city parks have and arnica is a mainstay for all the cracks my leg or arms take.

So what you are saying is aspirin doesn’t work because it was originally from the aspen or willow tree! You should write the medical profession and tell them aspirin doesn’t work because it’s from inner layer of a tree. Sounds pretty homeopathic to me!
What about all the other medications that are ALL Derivatives from plants, trees etc??? I guess that’s a big hoax as well

Before anyone blows off natural medicines, they best look at all the medicines that derive the majority of their composition from. Morphine used by army....comes from what, magic powder from big pharmacy in the sky or opium, which we know is from the poppy plant! Imagine that, a plant goop being used for medicinal purposes! The shear audacity of them to do that and then tell us natural medicines are witchcraft.

So no flame wars needed. Natural Medicines have existed since day two or seven of man being on earth. Pharmaceutical companies use it. I am no conspiracy nut but know enough that where there is money, there are lies, false studies, unstudied evidence etc.

So by all means, take an aspirin for the pain in your leg if you don’t believe a plant will help. Never take penicillin because you know how that was discovered or is made from and when you look at the link, one will see sugar as part of the process. https://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/from ... ative.html

Here’s another one on that treatment that according to you will not work because it’s natural https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillium

Here’s a good list.https://www.thoughtco.com/drugs-and-med ... nts-608413

Ever wonder why the brits overseas loved gin and tonic, ever hear of malaria? Quinine in the tonic. Tonic, A drivative from a tree!!! Guess those stupid savages (dumb locals) didn’t know what worked! They should have waited for big pharma to discover it and market in a pill form!

So follow the money going to gov and the slime ball politicians and you will see big pharma. From nazi era firms to today’s big pharma pill pushers. Many on this board know governments are only moderately good at keeping roads and other iinfrastructures working. If you trust them and those who bribe them ( oops, sorry, contribute to the party) or who either conduct or help pay for the studies, fill your medicine cabinet with aspirin, but I don’t trust them. I trust my eyes, and I have seen a sugar load of things proved wrong/ lies by gov and companies.

Do t take this personal, hell, I wasn’t convinced either. If ever we meet, I will buy you a good drink made from some oat, barley, corn, grape.. derivative
You've mixed "belief" and "feeling" in your post with the word evidence. If your evidence based, this should be clear.

Your "belief" in medicine isn't relavent. Nor is mine. It is not about belief, its about reality. Evidence based reality.

Your story is anecdotal. There are many anecdotal stories. Both of people who "believe" homeopathy worked, and those that say it didnt. The plural of anecdote is not data. There are a plethera of variables in one's life that can affect them. To date, no study has shown homeopathy works. If you wish to continue to believe, thats fine. Your not harming anyone. Stating it works on a public forum..no. Thats not acceptable. There is no evidence, statistical or otherwise that homeopathy works.

Finally, your mixing up homeopathy with something like remedies or proven chemical interactions from nature? Homeopathy has no evidence, no scientific merit, and no basis in reality. If your talking about stuff found in nature..that isn't alternative or chinese or whatever else...its science. Over half of all pharmaceuticals have there creation and basis from "nature." Science is more interested in the chemical reactions, the interactions rather than an ideology on where the molecule has come from, or what culture, etc. There is continued research into nature and the applications to make human life better. Open up a scientific journal..Nature, or Discover, or even Scientific American. There is no talk about "Western" medicine, or "Chinese" medicine or "natural" medicine...its all evidence based. If you want to talk about the merit of Naturopathic remedies, or other alternative therapies we can discuss the merits and pitfalls. But if your talking about homeopathy specifically its complete rubbish.
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Wayne
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Re: homeopathic treatments

Post by Wayne »

thecrownsown wrote: Therapies and remedies that work and shown to work through testing, research and statistical proof are evidence based. ...There is no proof, nor evidence that it does. Thats a lie.

Believe what you want. If your going to state a fact, hold it up with evidence.
To be clear, yes I will believe what I want and you are free to do the same. I'll also thank you to allow others to express their opinions without you shouting them down.

Perhaps you might want to broaden your mind by looking at what medical science calls 'the placebo effect.' Research on this area has focused on the relationship of mind and body. One of the most common theories is that the placebo effect is due to a person's expectations. If a person expects a pill to do something, then it's possible that the body's own chemistry can cause effects similar to what a medication might have caused. Experts also say that there is a relationship between how strongly a person expects to have results and whether or not results occur. The stronger the feeling, the more likely it is that a person will experience positive effects.

There is all sorts of proof in medical science that a direct benefit can be gained from 'medications' that in-themselves do not have the inherent ability to help the patient. If the patient believes it helps them, it actually may. Those ARE the facts.
None you improvise, one (or more) is luxury.
thecrownsown
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Re: homeopathic treatments

Post by thecrownsown »

Wayne wrote:
thecrownsown wrote: Therapies and remedies that work and shown to work through testing, research and statistical proof are evidence based. ...There is no proof, nor evidence that it does. Thats a lie.

Believe what you want. If your going to state a fact, hold it up with evidence.
To be clear, yes I will believe what I want and you are free to do the same. I'll also thank you to allow others to express their opinions without you shouting them down.

Perhaps you might want to broaden your mind by looking at what medical science calls 'the placebo effect.' Research on this area has focused on the relationship of mind and body. One of the most common theories is that the placebo effect is due to a person's expectations. If a person expects a pill to do something, then it's possible that the body's own chemistry can cause effects similar to what a medication might have caused. Experts also say that there is a relationship between how strongly a person expects to have results and whether or not results occur. The stronger the feeling, the more likely it is that a person will experience positive effects.

There is all sorts of proof in medical science that a direct benefit can be gained from 'medications' that in-themselves do not have the inherent ability to help the patient. If the patient believes it helps them, it actually may. Those ARE the facts.
So your infering that Homeopathy is a placebo? I agree with you there is some very interesting research coming out on placebo's. I will try and dig up some of the papers on it I have. I think you'd enjoy reading them if we can find that basis to start a discussion.

As for broadening my mind. Yes. We can all do that. It does not mean "believing" in things that have no evidence. Thats not broadening one's mind. Thats just rearranging one's on bias. There are lots of things to study in this world. Based in evidence and reality.
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Wayne
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Re: homeopathic treatments

Post by Wayne »

I cannot remark very much on the attributes or failings of homeopathy. As I've already stated, I've not subscribed to such treatments. I do however believe in natural medicine. Many of the chemicals used in the pharmaceutical industry naturally occur in the environment. Clarence has already given a few examples.

There are many things that medical science does not understand. My wife suffered from migraine type headaches for years which confounded several medical practitioners and specialists. She read about the water cure and since applying it, she hasn't had a headache since. Perhaps she was dehydrated, perhaps it was solely in her imagination. What is clear however, is that it worked.

For many people suffering from a variety of maladies, something that helps them is all that they seek. It doesn't really matter to them if medical science says it works. For them the proof is self-evident.

I encourage people to take charge of their own healthcare. This is something that wasn't really prevalent in my parents generation. Several years back I cracked the vertebrate in my neck in a car accident. Relief from pain was only found through acupuncture. It worked for me. That is not to say that this is the answer for everyone.

People are similar, yet dissimilar in a number of ways. I believe that there are still mysteries that are unsolved. Medical science does not have all the answers. The accepted practice / standards are not necessarily correct. It wasn't that long ago that the accepted medical treatment for many illnesses was to bleed the patient...

In reality, we do not actually know what we in our smugness think we do. I've found it wise to keep an open mind, regardless of what the current trend in medical science proclaims...
None you improvise, one (or more) is luxury.
Clarence

Re: homeopathic treatments

Post by Clarence »

Crownsmen. I know arnica, infludo... work. As do hundreds of other natural extracts.
I also take pharma produced meds.
Your reference to natural meds being fit conspiracy section is not worth responding to.
You do your thing and I will do mine
For me that’s the end of this discussion.
Best of luck
thecrownsown
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Re: homeopathic treatments

Post by thecrownsown »

Clarence wrote:Crownsmen. I know arnica, infludo... work. As do hundreds of other natural extracts.
I also take pharma produced meds.
Your reference to natural meds being fit conspiracy section is not worth responding to.
You do your thing and I will do mine
For me that’s the end of this discussion.
Best of luck
I did not reference "natural meds." I refer to homeopathy. There is a very distinct difference.

Over half of all pharmaceuticals come from extracts from "nature." Evidence based medicine is more interested in the chemistry of something, whether it comes from "nature" or elsewhere. Thats a variable thats made with integrative medicine. Part of its ideology. (Really all chemical compounds come from nature...well some odd elements made in a lab, but nothing that is applicable to this discussion.)

Homeopathy has no evidence, no study that supports it.

The end of the discussion happens when people stop promoting fake and false remedies. Post your religious opinion fair enough. Dare to profess Homeopathy as a valid medical treatment..I will be there to correct that. Its morally disturbing to profess this to others as a viable option to help with real legitimate health issues.
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